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The Thrashers and NHL Draft Success

Derek Zona over at The Copper & Blue (SB Nation's Oilers blog) wrote a nice run-down of the Oiler's recent draft success. I highly recommend you read his post before continuing with this one, as I'm going to use his methodology to pull up some numbers for the Thrashers.

It all started with an About.com post by Jamie Fitzpatrick looking at draft success rates for NHL players in the 90s. Well, you might remember a certain somebody did his own analysis of the 90s recently, so I thought it'd be fun to jump on this bandwagon as well.

The question? "How many career NHL players did the Thrashers get in the drafts from 1999-2005?" Remember, this is the period that is widely considered "dark times" for the Thrashers. Our drafting has (according to common wisdom and many stats posts by The Falconer) gotten much, much better since then. Still, how'd we do? And how did we stack up to the Oilers?

Star-divide

The cut-off that Derek used for "career player" is 200 NHL games (but just 100 games for goalies.) The expected success rate of 1st round selections is in the low 60s, but since the Thrashers drafted in the top 5 for many years, we expect them to be much higher.

Year Round  Num.  Player GP 
1999 1 1 Patrik Stefan  455
2000 1 2 Dany Heatley  589
2001 1 1 Ilya Kovalchuk  621
2002 1 2 Kari Lehtonen 216
2002 1 30 Jim Slater  335
2003 1 8 Braydon Coburm  297
2004 1 10 Boris Valabik 80
2005 1 16 Alex Bourret 0

 

As expected, the Thrashers had a bit more success than the Oilers. Of our 8 picks, 6 are "career NHLers" based on Derek's standards, though I expect Boris Valabik to hit that mark eventually. (If he can stay healthy, it'll only take two more seasons." Alex Bourret, on the other hand, was a total bust. Now, keep in mind this says nothing about the quality of the player: we all consider Patrik Stefan to have been a terrible pick, but he meets the criteria we're looking for. 6-for-8 (75%) means the Thrashers beat the average, in a couple years, that should be 7-for-8, or 87.5%.

The second round is where it starts to get a little rough. You'll notice that the Thrashers traded away a large number of their second round picks in certain years, going three consecutive years without a 2nd-round selection.

Year Round  Num.  Player GP 
1999 2 30 Luke Sellars  1
2000 2 31 Ilya Nikulin  0
2000 2 42 Libor Ustrnul  0
2004 2 40 Grant Lewis 1
2005 2 41 Ondrej Pavelec  61
2005 2 49 Chad Denny 0
2005 2 53 Andrew Kozek 0


This is where it starts to look ugly. Not a single 2nd-round pick has panned out? 0-for-7? 0%? Ouch.

Now, we obviously expect Ondrej Pavelec to hit 100 NHL games sometime soon, probably this next season, but it's still pretty shocking. Even 1-for-7 (14.3%) is under the NHL average for 2nd-rounders (about 25%). We'd actually need two of these guys to work out.

Oh wait. There's a name up there I recognize. Ilya Nikulin? I know him from somewhere... isn't he an All-Star in the KHL? Yes, sadly, we got burned by the Russian Factor with our pick of Nikulin. And, if you count him and Pavelec, we're looking more like 2-for-7 (28.6%), just a tad above the NHL average. So while our 2nd-round drafting certainly wasn't great, it's not quite as terrible as it looks at first glance.

Of course, after the 2nd round, things get a little ugly. The NHL average is roughly 12% (if you look at the 90s) and 8.7% over the period we're looking at (purely stats-based, not counting guys who "might make it.")

The Thrashers had 54 picks in the later rounds, conveniently the same number as the Oilers, so if you'd like a comparison, you've got it. Of course, 16 of the 54 (30%) were in the 8th or 9th round, so we can't expect too much. Here are guys who made it along with guys who might someday make it...

Year Round  Num.  Player GP 
1999 5 128 Derek MacKenzie  64
1999 8 217 Garnet Exelby 408
2000 6 180 Darcy Hordichuk 431
2001 5 135 Colin Stuart 51
2001 6 189 Pasi Nurminen 125
2002 7 198 Nathan Oystrick 56
2003 8 239 Tobias Enstrom 246
2005 6 187 Andrei Zubarev 0


I don't have to tell you this, but it's pretty ugly. Our current success rate is 4-for-54, or 7.4%, short of the current 8.7% average. There's a few guys who might help that out, but it's not really in our hands. Derek MacKenzie is picking up about 20 games/season as a call-up for the Columbus Blue Jackets. A long-term injury might see him hit 200 games. Colin Stuart would have, in all likelihood, hit 200 games with us, but due to some trades, he's currently not getting any NHL games with the Calgary Flames. Nathan Oystrick might still have a chance as a call-up for the Anaheim Ducks, but it's a long-shot at best. Andrei Zubarev would very likely make our squad, but he's currently playing in the KHL.

The good news is that our drafting has picked up measurably. Three of our first round picks since 2006 are already in the NHL (Bryan Little, Zach Bogosian, Evander Kane) and the only other selection still has a shot (Daultan Leveille). Two of our three 2nd rounders look to be solid (Carl Klingberg, Jeremy Morin, not so much Riley Holzapfel). Of our 20 later-round picks, two will almost certainly be career NHLers (Arturs Kulda, Paul Postma) and several others, especially goalies, hold high places in our soon-to-be-released prospect rankings.

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good stuff

Let’s hope we continue to pick up our percentages this year.

"To all the critiques, thank you for the motivation… because it has been an edge for me and will continue to be an edge for me" - Tim 'the Mile High Messiah' Tebow

by ATLbronco on Jun 13, 2010 3:17 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

maybe to explain the early failures....

Not that I’d ever want to defend Teflon Don but, could it be that early on in our we had to draft based on minor league needs as much as NHL needs? (past the first round)

Now after a decade of mixed drafts we finally have a stable/useful/quality roster of AHL/ECHL players ready for promotion. We can draft based on more specific needs instead of “oh god we’ve got nothing, take anyone in sight!”

by GT_Thrashfan on Jun 13, 2010 3:33 PM EDT reply actions  

This May Not Be the Most Popular Statement I Ever Make But...

There was a moderate shake-up in our scouting group in 2003 around the time w Atlanta Spirit bought the team. Perhaps AS was more willing to spend money on scouting?

It’s not too strange to think that it took a couple years to catch up, one of which we only had 4 picks anyway.

by timmyf on Jun 13, 2010 4:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

that'd certainly be another side effect

The more developed a farm system is, the easier it must be for scouts to be able to target players, more cost effective scouting.

by GT_Thrashfan on Jun 13, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nikulin

I don’t think it’s fair to count Nikulin. Since he has played 0 NHL games to date, there is no effective difference between him and Bourret. A miss is a miss, whether the guy just stinks or chooses not to come over. A pick on a guy who won’t come over to play for you is still a pick thrown in the trash. If you want to go ahead and count Pavelic as meeting the mark now, even though it’s early, I’d give you that one.

I don’t believe for a minute that DW drafted for minor league needs as GT_Thrashfan speculates. The scouting was terrible in the Time Warner days and that played some role. Also, Waddell always had a bit of a gambler in him and he would take guys earlier than he should have because they had about a 10% chance of being great and about a 90% chance of being bad. Guys like Leveille (who may yet be another Slater at best – maybe) and Forney were reaches when they were drafted and most teams felt that they were taken at least 1 round too early just to name some recent examples. Remember too, a lot of picks were wasted on busts from the Q like Chad Denny and the head scout responsible was only let go last year after several years of damage was done.

by Zontar on Jun 13, 2010 8:21 PM EDT reply actions  

We might have to agree to disagree on Nikulin. My intention was to give credit as he was a good pick, and while I understand your point, when we drafted him, there was no KHL. If not for the crazy KHL money he can get now, there’s a good chance he would have come over. (Ditto the CBA and our very limited options for entry-level contracts.)

by timmyf on Jun 13, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

This

Thrasher fans have always keyed in on the spending deficits of the on-ice payroll but I think often they don’t think about the fact it’s probably one facet of an overall problem – lack of quality spending period. While I didn’t disagree necessarily with the decision at the time, I think the Anderson hire was motivated more by the bottom-line involved than whether he was purely the best choice.

I have no doubt that if scouting budgets were available for public consumption, the Thrashers would again be near the bottom … even now. I mean, everything was worse under Time Warner, but the spending still isn’t up to par.

Between that lack and the crap relationship that exists with the Wolves, our development system is woefully inadequate.

by WINGZ_25 on Jun 14, 2010 7:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

And this is typically my argument for why fans should not boycott the team. Atlanta Spirit will just start skimping on the off-ice payroll.

by timmyf on Jun 14, 2010 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think this is taking a bit of an unrealistically optimistic approach to this. Sure, you can say Nikulin is a good player… he just didn’t end up in the NHL. Likewise, you can say that Alex Cherepanov is a good player, he just didn’t end up in the NHL either.

On top of that, realistically, while 200 games counts as a “success”, for the picks that ATL was getting in round 1, that’s pretty awful. Heatley/Kovalchuk, and after that… Really, you’ve got 2 of 8 picks that were really worth it. You can’t fuck up #1 and #2 overall picks like that. On top of that, you have Coburn who would be good, but he was dealt for nothing. 3 of 8, maybe you can call it. Second rounders, 1 of 7. That’s pretty awful.

http://sacrificethebody.blogspot.com/
Sacrifice the Body - Examining the NHL through statistical analysis, reasoned thought, and blind conjecture.

by IAmJoe on Jun 14, 2010 4:14 AM EDT reply actions  

You’re making the assumption we’re the only ones getting fleeced occasionally.

I agree the 2nd rounders are pretty bad. Klingberg+Morin should help immensely.

by timmyf on Jun 14, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sad

It’s really disappointing that Nikulin decided to bolt to Russia, as it seems his passion for hockey < money in the bank. Prime talent just doesn’t cut it anymore I guess :(

by Patrick J. Canella on Jun 14, 2010 3:39 PM EDT reply actions  

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