Rumors of Thrashers Relocation a Topic in Kovalchuk Contract Talks
by The Falconer on Dec 22, 2009 9:43 AM EST
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Ben Wright has both the audio and a transcript of the Don Waddell press conference on Ilya Kovalchuk. Waddell's statement that talks have hit a snag is not a big surprise. What did surprise me is that it sounds like they are seeking some language or assurance that the team will remain in Atlanta for the duration of the contract.
The one thing we continue to keep telling people is this franchise is not going any place. Every time there's ever talk about a franchise moving we always get lumped in there- that we're going some place to another city. As we know, and our ownership has stated, we own the NBA team here along with the NHL team along with the arena. This franchise is not going any place, but we do get lumped in and it's a concern of a player that's going to sign a long term contract to remain with this franchise. He'd be signing that contract to stay here in Atlanta and not think we'd be going someplace else. There are of those kinds of factors you have to deal with.
and then later Waddell says:
Like I said the media has probably done a good job of putting us in Winnipeg and Quebec City and all these places to help stir the pot. There's been a few obstacles that are out of our control that we had to deal with along the way, so yeah, would I rather have got this deal done three months ago? I know one thing- I would have gotten more sleep by now. It still remains our first choice to get the deal done as quickly as we could.
Which answers a question I have long wondered about. When media outlets publish un-sourced speculation that the Thrashers are about to depart for Canada are they not causing material harm to the franchise? If relocation speculation is without any basis it would appear to be grossly irresponsible and in fact damaging to the franchises ability to get things done--such as talks with their star player.
I wonder if the Thrashers have ever threatened defamation suits to people who run these stories? I will point out that after Al Strachan said the Thrashers might move the next week he was kicked off Hockey Night in Canada. Perhaps it was a coincidence, perhaps not. I'm not a lawyer, so I can't say whether making false statements about a business enterprise is actionable or not, but to this non-lawyer it certainly seems that relocation rumors are producing a tangible cost to the franchise. The Thrashers ownership just spend millions suing each other. Perhaps they should drop a "cease and desist" order on the next person who claims that the Thrashers are touring the MTS Centre in Winnipeg--that ought to bolster their denials of any relocation talk.
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I’m glad to see this article and it’s a good point. However, based on DW’s AJC comments today that talks have hit a “snag”, I believe that both sides are quite a bit apart and assurances that the team won’t move are not holding up a deal.
Given how the NHL saved the Coyotes for Phoenix, why on earth would people conclude that they would let the Thrashers move to a much smaller market? And why is it always our team that gets singled out? Why not teams that have real problems like Nashville and both Florida teams? Ottawa and Buffalo both had serious problems not that long ago and I can remember in this decade that there was talk that none of the Canadian teams except Toronto and Montreal could turn a profit. There is some serious anti-Atlanta hate in the press. Some of it comes from New York and I am convinced that it has to do with the Braves and things that happened in the 1990s between the Braves and both New York baseball teams, but it’s just a complete mystery to me as to why the Toronto press hates us so much.
Lately, It’s been both Florida and Atlanta that have been singled out to move. At least that’s my view of the situation from listening to NHL Center Ice on XM/Sirius. Nashville seems to have put the rumors to bed, probably after fighting off the advances of Mr. Blackberry. Maybe if Jim Basille makes an offer for the Thrashers and loses, this organization can put these stories to rest? I’ve sort of resolved myself to the fact that this team will be moving someday, but I have no reason for that other than the barrage of news stories coming out of Canadia.
Without the european players ruining the game and the USA and it’s undeserving hockey franchises, I don’t think there would be much to write about in the great white north.
I believe that when the Atlanta Spirit bought the team, part of the deal stated that the team could not be moved for 8 or 10 years or something. We’re still in that period.
I could be wrong on this, but I remember Waddell mentioning it off-hand at one point.
teams dont fail in canada, right nordiques and jets??
i dont know if any of you saw this blip, but phillips arena was the most profitable arena in north america and 3rd in the world for all events i.e. concerts, sports, et al. for a long period of time last year. It’s not like Atlanta Spirit is suffering here. I recently read also, maybe it was here, that the spirit is lost 1.2. million last year with the thrashers during one of our worst seasons both financially and in team performance. 1.2 million is NOTHING for a group of investors especially when theyre raking it in overall. In fact, atlanta was pretty far from the bottom (FLA was the worst with well over 15 million if i recall correctly). The naysayers, mostly in canada, have in their heads that southern cities cant support hokey teams, despite the financial realities and the fact that in past years most southern teams, including the thrashers, have outperformed markets in boston, new jersey, st. louis, chicago, pittsburgh, washington, and of course, long island. just like the economy itself, a team’s situation can change very rapidly e.g. chicago going from 29th to 1st in attendance in one year, and pittsburgh’s and washington’s recent turnarounds. And if even kovy leaves, the team isnt just going to collapse and lose all its fans. If he DOES leave, were going to get some pretty good players and picks in return and we could develop into the next chicago with a load of young exciting talent.
by dennylambert!! on Dec 23, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
playing devils advocate
wouldn’t it make sense to eliminate the money loser and open those dates to concerts, ice shows, and circuses? The things that actually bring the owners money?
the devil is wrong in this case.
how many circuses or ice shows go on tour?? you think huge concerts are in atlanta everyday of the week? of course not. even during the arena season, there arent events everyday at phillips. look at the schedule for just this month at phillips and you would see how many days the arena is vacant even with the thrashers and hawks playing.
by dennylambert!! on Dec 29, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
Fuel to the fire?
First point is with the “media” being what it is in the 21st century who is the Spirit group going to sue for these allegations? “Jets011” ? “Nick4Nords”? “HamiltonThrashers” ? Nowadays anyone with access to a keyboard can fire this crap up and when enough if it is blogged, ’booked, and tweeted guys who still get paid to break news are going to jump on the bandwagon to try and prove their salt.
Don’t believe me? Go to Google and type in “Atlanta Thrashers Relocation”. What’s the third item listed? The title of this blog. Think that might trigger and alert somewhere? Think every good Internetarian is going to actually read the blog post in its entirety, or at all? Nope, just more proof that there’s sparks landing near the kindling and she’s ready to catch any minute now.
Second point is how long can this team realistically stay here when the building is between 50 – 75% full? Yes winning brings crowds but it that really true? The Hawks have been on an uptick for a couple of years now and are truly being mentioned as one of the elites in the NBA and they aren’t selling out. With the Thrashers “head barely above the .500 line” style of winning, I don’t see a huge uptick in attendance where seats are suddenly hard to come by.
Side note — On a recent ESPN Hawks game, where we blew out another opponent, the announcers talked about how nobody fears coming to ATL to play. There’s no excitement, there’s no anger, there’s no energy in the building; it’s a blah place to play. If I were a pro athlete in any of the 4 major sports, I would certainly consider less money to play in a better environment than come to Atlanta.
I have friends who still question the Hawks. They’re not sports fans but that losing image still sticks in their minds. The Hawks have made the playoffs the last two years (and seem a lock this year), but it takes time to rebuild the damage that was done. I don’t think the Thrashers are as bad off image-wise as the Hawks, but it will still take time for the arena to be filled early in the season. As expected, attendance is on the upswing but they’ll need to win to continue the trend.
I need to point this out whenever I read posts about the Thrashers attendance…. The Colorado sit atop their division, hold the NHL record for consecutive sell outs (I believe it was 14 straight years), are stocked with exciting young talent, and are having serious attendance issues. They’re putting 11K in the seats on any given night. The NFL has games blacked out this weekend, and I believe the NHL is drawing more fans that the NBA. So… attendance and fan support are down because of other factors than how teams are performing.
by SilverRubicon on Dec 22, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Even in the internet age there are libel laws. I’m certainly cognizant of them. People on radio, tv and the internet are subject to them. In particular I’m thinking of a certain radio guy in Winnipeg who has claimed in writing that the Thrashers toured the MTS Centre this year. That is either a true of false statement. If it is false and people are spreading fictitious statements about the franchise—one libel suit would serve as a shot across the bow. Even if the lawsuit were unsuccessful, the message would be heard that reporting hopes as facts can get you into legal trouble. If the rumors of the Thrashers moving are 100% without merit, then those people who keep saying that are effectively running a negative campaign against the franchise which makes it harder for them to conduct business. If the owners want to stay, it might be worth sending a crystal clear message that this talk is de-valuing their asset.
All things Thrashers + stats: www.birdwatchersanonymous.com
by The Falconer on Dec 22, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
My best friend is a lawyer and he and I have talked about libel in the past, though such conversations had nothing to do with this. He has explained to me that libel is really quite difficult to prove and that non-lawyers have no idea what it actually takes to bring such a charge. Most of what the common man thinks is libelous is not libelous at all. I suspect that the Atlanta Spirit are not doing anything because they probably don’t have grounds for any action.
it’s a concern of a player that’s going to sign a long term contract
This strikes me as a red herring or a CYA remark by Waddell. If Kovy and Grossman are actually making a point of this in negotiations, the obvious response is: you’re actually considering the KHL and you ask me this?
Kovalchuk wants to be paid more than Ovechkin and Crosby who actually put people in the seats around the league, more than Zetterberg and Datsyuk who have won championshipsand league-wide awards, more than a half dozen other players who are more valuable than he is. I think his only shot at getting that much is in Atlanta and if Waddell does that kind of deal, he risks doing severe long term damage to the franchise.
by Big Picture Guy on Dec 22, 2009 12:40 PM EST reply actions
I think you guys are missing the bigger story in the Waddell interview. It seems clear the team is looking for one of these sliding-scale contracts – where Kovy is looking for fixed dollars.
But the bigger question is why would the team even think they could get a sliding scale contract with a player so young? These sliding scale contracts are given to players with small amounts owed in the out years, years when the player would typically be retired. The assumption is these out years will be bought out (wink-wink-nudge-nudge.) But that doesn’t make sense for a 27 year old player. Did/do the Thrashers really think he’d go for that? And why isn’t this blog discussing this concept, which is obviously the much bigger news, and substantive ‘snag’ rather than this relocation red-herring?
I’m sure I agree with your read. Rich teams like the Flyers want to front-load all their deals so they have a lower cap hit and the players can retire before the contract is up and still receive the bulk of their cash. It is a win-win for both player and franchise.
The Thrashers are not rich and I don’t think Kovy intends to retire at 36. So I don’t think they are talking about a front-loaded contract. If anything, I suspect the Thrashers want a back-loaded contract. Why? If Kovy is traded another team picks up more of the tab. If he is not traded during the life of that contract, inflation makes the payments in the later years less costly. Now if you’re Kovy’s agent you don’t want inflation to eat away at your client’s money, so you would prefer to see the money evenly spread across the years. I suspect that this is why the area of dispute: back-loaded or even distribution.
All things Thrashers + stats: www.birdwatchersanonymous.com
by The Falconer on Dec 22, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
I specifically remember DW insisting that the Thrashers were NOT going to do one of those front loaded or back loaded contract deals with Kovy back at the start of the season. He said that both parties wanted a contract that was basically even for all the years. Of course DW has said things for public consumption that seemingly contradict what happens later (we’re not going to buy out Zhitnik) and sometimes there is very good reason for such, but I think it’s worth pointing out that the man himself claimed not too long ago that there would not be an uneven contract.
The Falconer’s follow up post is quite right in that DW has seriously underestimated the value of talent in the past with Brunette being the most extreme example (he signed for something like 6 times what DW thought he should get). I have also personally speculated that DW may be like a manager I knew on a previous job where he treated every contract negotiation as a game in which he had to win, which meant that he had to get the other side to give up a lot more than he did. DW has gotten some guys to sell themselves cheap (honestly, I think both Afinogenov and Peverley did so) and that may have caused him to conclude that he can play chicken until the end and Kovy will fold.
Maybe its just me...
But the Thrashers seem to have more contracts negotiated in the media than other NHL teams. Could also be I don’t pay that much attention to other teams’ negotiations.
The earlier that stars are re-signed, the less media attention scales up. We’ve just been unfortunate to have two stars (Hossa and Kovy) drag it out.
by timmyf on Dec 22, 2009 2:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
On the other hand, DW is rarely pro-active in getting people re-signed. Consider the Audette (“I had no idea Steve Sullivan would sign for so much”), Brunette, Savard, Kovalchuk’s 2nd contract (“Who knew Rick Nash would get so much money.”) I’m not saying DW should have re-signed every one of those players but VERY few players have signed extensions early in Atlanta (Enstrom, Peverley and Havelid only ones I can think of right now.) More than once he has been burned by waiting and letting other teams establish a new (higher) price for talent.
All things Thrashers + stats: www.birdwatchersanonymous.com
by The Falconer on Dec 22, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
Couple these fiascoes on top of Damian Rhodes, the Dan Snyder tragedy, the resulting soap opera with Heatley, Hossa bolting town and now the possible departure of Kovy. Who is the one star that casual Atlanta sports fan can identify with? No one, we’ve run them all out of town.
….and some say the Hawks have an image problem???
Wadda-do, Everybody...
by TheBrickwall on Dec 22, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Epiphany
Fire DW and offer the job to David Shand (yes, that David Shand). DW’s had one losing season after anopther. He’s been managing this team for more than a decade and the team/fans only enjoyed playoff hockey once (we may be outside the bubble this year). How many NHL managers have that in their resume. In the real world, if you are hired to make money, and you don’t produce, you get fired. He was hired to make money (i.e. succesful franchise)—he’s failed to do that. I really think the only reason he hasn’t been sacked is the ownership problems—it’s hard for the owner to fire the GM when it’s not clear who who signs DWs performance report.
It seems like the fans are signing...
his performance report by not attending games.
I’ve learned that everything that comes out of Don’s mouth isn’t always the gospel truth. If he says don’t fret about the team moving, I’d start worrying. How many NHL teams survive any length of time with fewer than 10,000 fans a night? If Kovy leaves, that’s what you can expect our average attendance to become,
DW is not the only “decider” on this Gary Bettman went to the mat to give the Coyotes another chance in Phoenix.
All things Thrashers + stats: www.birdwatchersanonymous.com
by The Falconer on Dec 23, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think the loss of Kovalchuk will impact attendance. Wins and losses, sure, but not Kovy.
by SilverRubicon on Dec 23, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
I think a winning team without Kovalchuk will draw better than a losing team with him, but wins and losses being equal before and after, the absence of Kovalchuk would likely hurt attendance. So I disagree in part.
Sans Kovy
But look at what they COULD get for Kovy. Bucigross (yeah, I know) was laying out that a Bruins trade could bring Thrashers Rask and Wheeler and their first round pick. If they threw in another pick/prospect (2nd round 2011/Brad Marchand?), I’d take it.
Again, my comments both public and private have been that, if we can’t sign Kovy for around $8 million, I’d be happy. I’m not sure we can, and the rumored trades are extremely favorable to us.
That said, they’re rumors. But if we can pull off a deal like I’ve seen, it might be in our best interest to trade him. Unhappy fan base or not.
Great deal for the Bruins....
another 3rd liner and so so goalie for Atlanta. I’d almost rather lose him for nothing than make another eastern team stronger.
Let me be blunt: I don’t think Kovalchuk is a gate attraction for the large masses of Atlantans, so it may be time to let him go.
by Black ice in Alabama on Dec 24, 2009 1:08 AM EST reply actions
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